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Don’t be THAT GUY In Your Social Media Party
February 15th, 2009
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by Warren Whitlock · Filed Under: How to Twitter
I’ve been getting a lot of questions about a service that promises to add a whole lot of unsuspecting followers on Twitter. There are still some marketers who think that all we need to do is build up a massive list of people and then they all will magically buy stuff.
I’ve been replying with “This is a chain letter.. what’s next? Will you have me send $5 to each person on a list?”
But one of them admitted he didn’t believe the claims himself, and asked me to explain why it might not work.. I wrote:
It’s never a question if the chain letter works.. in fact, they were banned in snail mail BECAUSE they were so effective.Here they have removed the “you will have bad luck if you don’t” and “send $5′ part.. thanks to emails, you can blast this out a lot keeper and don’t need to twist arms.
So I’m not saying not to do it.. I’m just betting that the types of followers you get from automated systems will be like FFA pages and freebie list builders… short lived.
Social media does because it’s so easy to opt out of reading the over hyped messages. The average person looks at 19,000 follower in a month and thinks scam and wont want to follow you.
If you pay someone to follow you, they will be more loyal.. but it’s kind of like paying people to be your friends.
Think of Twitter like a party. You can pass out a lot of business cards.. but you’ll be known as “that guy” and shunned.
Don’t you want to be invited to the next cool party? If so.. make conversations, be helpful and build a real relationship.
Some people look at social media as a new way to build a pyramid scheme.
Fortunately, we know have control.. we just avoid following them or un-follow. If we don’t follow, they become irrelevant fast
Twitter give you the chance to meet people, build relationships and meak meaningful connections. No reason to be THAT GUY.. you will do a lot more business if you treat people right and listen to them instead of spend your time on scams and schemes
Tonight on TwitCastRadio, we talked to @MichelleCheetah, very successful entrepreneur who joined us on Twitter a few months back. She has made connecitons with customers and suppliers, but has mostly used Twitter to LISTEN and learn.
How are YOU using Twitter to accelerate your life and your business?
I, for one, am unfollowing anyone that tweets about using that program. In my opinion that is not the correct way to build a social network, and is nothing more than a scam. What about actually being social? These wannabe gurus need to get a clue and start actually using social media rather than always trying to find someone way to manipulate or game it.
I have seen this and am intrigued, but it is not a ponzi scheme in that you do not invest any money. I don’t think I will get thousands of followers are a result but I do see it as a very interesting viral experiment. A new blogger, for example, could benefit from being provided visibility by attracting new followers even if they do not know them,…yet.
Your argument is that it is a slippery slope only time will tell, you may be correct.
I couldn’t begin to follow 12K people. I have difficulty with 500. The social part of social networking is connecting with people and having fun, sharing, asking and answering questions, growing. It’s not about the numbers. That is empty. I don’t have a business to promote or an e-book. I use social networking simply for communicating and learning.
I unfollow and block anyone in my Twitter stream who promotes schemes like Tweetergetter. If enough people block these scammers then Twitter (EV) takes notice and they take action, also report these types of schemes to Twitter by e-mail or directly to @Twitter – I’ve done it several times with great success. In my opinion, it is also important to use the “block” function appropriately to help keep Twitter a relevant social media tool. Great post, I’ve RT to spread the word. @azwebdesign
Ellen
I think it might be a bit too harsh to unfollow someone who tries this.. Most of the people contacting me have been sincere in wanting to meet people.. not realizing that they are going about it the wrong way.
I’ve been sending them a private message.. and not pointing them to this blog post.
The people who have been retweeting this are falling for the allure of numbers, they will end up with a few more followers, but they are NOT going to be the people you will be having conversations with. No one gets rich from a pyramid scheme except for the con artist at the top. I haven’t been unfollowing folks (yet) that are retweeting this, as they may just misguided or underinformed. The people setting up these schemes will never be followed by me.
Chuck
Click on the link in the post where I mentioned FFA pages.
You may not have been on the net when this was a rage.. just one of the many schemes people have come up with in the gray areas.
Technically, and legally, this is allowed, and I teach NO RULES. It’s OK that some are trying new things.
In the long run, the only negative from these programs that I know won’t work.. is the REPUTATION you get from promoting them
I quite agree with Ellen .The problem is that hundreds …nay thousands are joining Twitter every day and many of these new peeps have been brainwashed into thinking that Social Media is a quick fix for wannabe Marketers and Gurus.The result is that all these newcomers think this is the way to go and that it must be cool and so lets give it a whirl.
Having said that it’s not easy being a Social Media Newbie since it’s exciting and you want to get going fast and not miss out.Very like the Newbie Internet Marketing Syndrome where you sign up to a Gazillion Newsletters, buy a load of stuff and then have it sit on your hard drive because you don’t know what to do with it!
Anne
I understand the feeling that tweeps will want to boycott or fight these programs.
In reality, they really aren’t that bad for those who use them. If they over promote, or automate messages to you, they will be banned under existing TOS.
However, the most likely outcome is that the reputations of people using them are damages.. maybe a little maybe a lot.
I’ve heard from some big name teachers of Internet Marketing who have been telling their followers about this.. while privately admitting that they would never do it on their own accounts.
Their argument that there is nothing wrong just didn’t hold water when they admitted it any success would just be a clogging of their own stream
Robin,
Good point about all the new people signing up.
This is why I think it’s important for us early adopters (those that have been on Twitter before TODAY are early adopter) to understand these naive souls.. offer a bit of patience as they learn and get them into STAGE 3 as fast as possible
I’ve seen these tweets, but don’t really understand the allure of having thousands of followers who really aren’t interested in reading your tweets.
I just started at this, and my following and followers are just below 100. I don’t know how many more tweeters I can keep up with!
Brenda
There is a learning curve for all of us.. I all it the 3 stage of Twitter Acceptance (we have a blog post here by that title)
Some folks in stage 2 are trying to find a way to use Twitter and assume that if more people read their tweets, they can sell more stuff.
This doesn’t work.. people hate their ads and they soon learn a better way.
With so many people coming on Twitter.. we were bound to see some trying games, schemes and scams. Some of my best friends have fallen for it
The key is NO RULES.. Use Twitter as you’d like. Follow or unfollow you want and tweet as often as you think you watn to.
Just like at the party.. you’ll soon be rid of “THAT GUY” as he moves on to the next scheme
I’d like someone to explain how tweetergetter is a scam. I am not using it, but it seems to do what it claims to do… so what exactly is the scam?
I read the three stages a few days ago. I actually passed your blogtalk radio link onto a friend and she passed the 3 stages blog post link back to me.
Chris
“Scam” has a loose definition for me. I use it to describe cell phone contracts and public education.. and even some things I like
Simply put you will not get the number of followers they promise if you use that tool.
It will work as stated, to some effect.. However, the people it lures in will be people who haven’t figured out that social media is about SOCIAL connections.
Read the link in the post to FFA pages.. another popular scheme years ago to get free ranking and traffic. Most had you accept email and thousands of people flooded their own email IN boxes wtih worthless sales pitches.
If you were looking for way to reach newbies to the get rich quick world.. these schemes might just get you a few (1% or less of those signing up) people. The percentage will be very low.. because the same people trying this also haven’t figured out that in social media.. you have to read and respond to communicate
I am so glad you wrote this article. I like to personally get to know who I follow and who follows me. It takes longer but getting to know people is the whole point. I have had people who want to follow me who use bad language and one guy actually said he was a bot. That was rather scary. I don’t know if I would unfollow someone who tweets about Twittergetter but I would be worried they might catch a virus or something.
Rebecca
Thanks for your comments.
My guess is that we don’t need to worry about people who try these programs.. just wait and they will be gone.
On the other hand.. if someone is annoying you, by all means you are right to unfollow them.
Personally, I’ve never had a problem with spam, stalking or rude behavior. I’m unfollowed 1 person who used bad language in every tweet.. but I consider that my problem for following him in the first place
It’s all about building relationships and giving value. You need to have enough people following you so they tell others about the value you create. This is where quality factors in. It’s not the quality of the follower, it’s the quality of the tweeter!
Warren, thanks so much for speaking out against this mindless and corrosive activity.
What people don’t get about TweeterGetter is that it will actually create more work for them later unfollowing/blocking spam-happy people AND/OR having their tweet stream permanently degraded and thus made nearly useless. (And recently, I came across this very apropos tweet by @sethsimonds: “have you seen that twitter spammers have a union now? it’s called tweetergetter. Imagine all the last-minute ebook deals!
”)
I’ve been collecting my “with friends” stream as RSS into Thunderbird for 1-2 weeks, in order to be able to do some filtering and stats experiments, just to get a fee for what is really going on on Twitter. An average of about a mere 800 friends (”following”), granted many of them quite active, created well over 100,000 tweets!
Now this is hard because I know there are tons of nuggets hid
den in there, from high quality/smart/nice people, and yet it’s difficult to find many of them.
Now imagine what happens if you have say 5,000 TweeterGetter ill-gotten spammers in your stream, it becomes completely pointless.
Lastly, people underestimate how much this kind of stuff can hurt their personal brand/social equity: Social context in SM is the key, and many people will react very negatively to perceived violations of social trust. Already, filtering around in my tweet “file” in Thunderbird, I could see 200 tweets “RT’ing” (really deceivingly so) for TG, and I dropped a handful of people who did so more 3 times or more.
Others, including some pretty high-profile/”VIP” users, I already have just a bit less respect for now that they’ve outed themselves as not being above participating in this scheme. Even though many already had all of the followers they ever needed… and/or the means to get more, intelligently.
Remember that through Search.twitter.com, anyone can see if you participated, for good (unless you delete those tweets, which I kind of recommend). Through Google, likely forever. Not smart…
Protect your personal brand and social equity! That’s the only thing you really have on Twitter. And everyone: speak out against this stuff to your own followers, it can have a real effect. A few people who I was on the fence about unfollowing have responded well to coaxes of rethinking their (often uninformed) participation, and desist in sending further TG spam.
OOO I really don’t like it when I end up as “That Guy” but it seems to happen to all of us taking action at one time or another. I use twitter to tell others of my webernet wanderings, it also makes it easy to find links of places I’ve been.
I’ve been wandering the web a long time and I am usually in the top 10% of first to know about new things on the internet and now I have a medium to tell others and spread useful content without forcing it on people.
highly agree with Brian,(that’s how I found this post) it’s the quality of the tweeter! and if you got something to tell me that’s new and cool about the web I’m all over it.
As far as building relationships, there could be a better way built into twitter to help you manage your relationships, like groups “built in” or something but for the most part it’s like a shiny brand new world to discover… I’m enjoying the journey!
I noticed you have over 17000 followers. How many meaningful connections have you made?
Marty
I’d like to have a meaningful connection with every follower. Sometimes I connect with a person through one @ .. other times we meet in person or they’ve read my book and blog.
Now that I’ve met you.. I’ll try to add one more… and see how I can help you.
Thanks for asking.
I am glad we can choose to follow, or unfollow anyone we like, and block or allow others to follow us. Moreover, we control what we choose to Tweet. I just don’t see how a pyramid scheme could ever gain traction.
What’s the point of having a lot of followers if you are not saying anything important? Any ill-gotten followers will simply stop following you if you spam them, or don’t have anything relevant to say. Seems like a non-issue.
How did connecting with interesting people get turned into a followers number contest anyway? Everyday I get followers with 1 update, a few followers, a link to a sales page, and they are following just under 2000 people. They seem to disappear within a week or less. So, what’s the point? They remind me of telemarketers.
I see Twitter and all other social Networks as exactly that Social “Networks.” A way to develop a web presence whether you are new to the internet or a long standing so called “guru.” If you have a business, the web is the fastest way to reach the greatest number of people in the shortest amount of time, and social networking has grown into the easiest way to accomplish just that.
Getting to the top of a Google page has grown increasingly more difficult because of social networks, but without them, you will never show up anywhere.
I’ve noticed the TweeterGetter, ViralTweets, etc. programs. I think some variations of these programs could be fine (as long as they don’t force you to tweet their message rather than one you write). On my Twitter resource page at BookMarket.com, I discourage people from using such forced viral programs. Far better to be a true viral Twitterer.
I was very surprised when I saw two tweeters using one of these systems — two who I had previously heard stating Twitter was all about quality relationships. I don’t get it. How are these methods about relationships? I propose they’re not!
You state that a follower would be more loyal, perhaps, if he was to be purchased by a tweeter for $5. I would say the purchased tweeter would be LESS loyal than a follower gained the regular way. Anyone that can easily be bought can’t possibly make a loyal follower, in my opinion! And a satisfying contact couldn’t be made by either tweeter, in my estimation, b/c loyalty wouldn’t be established between them. They would know they were mutual followers (if they even were mutual!) merely b/c of a purchase. The one who bought the other(s) would be at the greatest loss, perhaps, b/c he would wonder if his follower(s) he had purchased really valued him.
What kind of loyalty does buying a follower (another human being) produce? I know most of my followers stick around b/c they have the same interests, beliefs and values I do. So when I tweet, they don’t quickly leave, even if they disagree w/ a tweet or two. But if they do unfollow, they have every right, b/c they are making a fair value decision on whether they want to follow me per my tweets. That wouldn’t be true with one of these systems if you are saying these paid followers should feel obligated to stay b/c they’ve been ‘purchased w/ $5!’ In reality, a human being shouldn’t feel an obligation to have to continue following, even if bought!
Purchasing a human being isn’t consistent with loyalty, nor relationships. Real relationships on Twitter (those in which followers are added and followed back in a regular way — by merely following and asking to be followed back) are going to hold up. But these purchased relationships, per my estimation, will never last. And Heaven forbid if they do, the relationships formed, or lack thereof, will be shallow at best…
krissy knox
follow me on twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/iamkrissy
Twitter is obviously a conversation with a few or with many. I unfollow everyone who does not follow back, with few exceptions. Twitter for us is a communication, connection and promotional tool that has an understood set of rules.
@iamkrissy
you may be overstating the case saying that offering money for a follower is buying a person, but I agree your sentiment.
There is a difference between a relationship based on money, and a relationship based on friendship… we don’t ask our friends for a favor and then hand them money, we don’t tip our mother for a good dinner
relationships are built on social capital not market capital
Pat
you may have an “understood set of rules” the others use Twitter in their own way.
I would guess you agree, as you mentioned you don’t always follow 100% of the time.
“NO RULES” Allows for use of twitter like Tim Ferriss in http://budurl.com/ferriss
I am in the “no rules” camp…everything will level out as users find their own diverse paths.
@Chris et al. (who doubt that TG is a scam)
If you’d like a decent rundown of why/how TweeterGetter doesn’t work, check out this little synopsis (actual proof in some of the tweets RT’d and blog posts linked):
http://3on.us/tweetrgettr-saga
I believe Guy Kowasaki is right when he said, “If you say you don’t want more followers, you are lying.”
My research shows it is better to have a lot of followers if you want more people to see your message. If that is not your objective, then, sure, limit following people.
If someone follows you, I think you may be doing harm to yourself if you don’t follow them back, and soon.
BUT, using software to accumulate and accelerate followers is really bad form in my book.
I am surprised at how passionate the, what I would assume to be, Twitter purists are about softwares that increase your number of followers.
People and businesses use Twitter for two reasons, to get attention and converse with their friends. For the most part, people are on there to converse with their friends. But, you do have people that are looking for attention for one reason or another.
As far as businesses go, they are just looking for attention. Of course there is some social overlap, because of the nature of Twitter. But, if businesses did not have to socialize on Twitter to remain relevant and “play by the rules”, they wouldn’t. It is not worth the time. If their was an automated tool for that, it would be equally as popular. Businesses follow people to get more people to follow them back. They generally don’t care what their followers have to say on a day to day basis, unless it is relative to their product or the services they offer.
This gets me to my point. Businesses and people seeking attention will be drawn in by the service these softwares provide. They should not be black balled for using them as long as they do continue to “play by the rules” and reply back to questions and interact with the followers the software delivers.
I so agree. I have done so many videos on this issue cautioning people against the hype!
I cannot tell you how many calls I get with people in tears because they spent their last dime on a pipe dream and now they cannot locate the person that planned the heist!
Great post warren!
I think there’s something you all could be missing.
Warren, using your argument that Twitter is a party…
The people using TweeterGetter are a subcommunity of, well, ‘people that believe in TweeterGetter’. So, just cause you don’t like the guys who dress funny at your party doesn’t meant they shouldn’t be allowed to have their own party with Twitter if they want to.
Also, if you were smart enough to give value to your new found followers perhaps you’ll get some ‘real followers’ out of it.
Sure, the percentage will be smaller than followers gotten more naturally. But it’s really not much different than if I go tweet “@warrenwhitlock is great – you should all follow him” – then 20 or so ppl follow you and viola.
Personally, I *hate* MLMs, Pyramids, etc. But I actually decided to join and RT TweeterGetter _for my followers sake_. I could care less about a couple hundred extra followers – but if I pick up some more friends from TG, all the better.
The more I think about this subject, the more I support it. Who cares *how* you get your followers? And if Ellen, Anne, and (maybe soon) Randy want to unfollow me b/c of supporting TG, then I guess they didn’t feel the rest of what I did matched with them anyway.
——
Alex Schleber – you’re misunderstanding TG. You don’t end up following 1000’s of extra people. You follow 6 people and that’s it. Then the ‘pyramid’ takes over and you get a ‘downline’ of followers.
——
and I couldn’t *not* respond to this one directly
John E. Lilly said
“What’s the point of having a lot of followers if you are not saying anything important? Any ill-gotten followers will simply stop following you if you spam them, or don’t have anything relevant to say. Seems like a non-issue.”
my response
The antithesis is the POINT of using TweeterGetter IMO. Why not get followers *and* “say something important”.
And I love this term ‘ill-gotten’ followers. LOL
—-
Anyway, there’s a bit more than my two cents.
Harris Fellman
You can UNFOLLOW me here:
http://twitter.com/harrisfellman
Warren, Great post, as I was actually wondering what your opinion was about ‘Getter.
I think those support it are missing the big (and future) picture. When it comes to Internet marketing, things that are successful are replicated and mutated. Now imagine the Twitter experience if every marketer launches an auto-bot like TG and everyone is getting hundreds of automated Tweets each day. It would suck the enjoyment right out of the Twitter experience.
Remember when it was fun to hear “You’ve got mail”, before the Viagra ads started filling your mailbox? Only time will tell if we’re on the same trajectory with Twitter, but for now, I consider anything that sends me the same tweet, over and over again, to be a spam tool.
Dan Safkow
http://www.Twitter.com/DanSafkow
Harris
It’s really quite simple.
If you really care so much about your followers. Tell them about each other. Take the time to tweet about their good qualities, web sites, blogs and activities so that those in your stream can interact and engage.
Build the community… not numbers.
Dan
We are calling it “social media” and as a medium, the ideas you express are right on. Since it’s inevitable that it will be exploited by some.. many thing “Why not get some while I can?”
However, the revolution is MORE than just a new medium. There is a shift in how we do business and interact with people. The tools available now (and more coming) will make it easier to interact with people and establish real relationships between humans.
The barrier of “corporate policy” and “hidden information” will fall and we go back to the very basic desire to do business with those that we know, like and trust.
Scammers will continue to exist.. but we have new ways to uncover them.
What’s different, we don’t have to limit our friends and associations to those within walking distance.. where modern communications, distribution, manufacturing made us homogeneous and yet isolated.. the social media (for lack of a better term) will let us be less isolated and individuals.. while not dropping the advances of the 20th Century
As a guy who made my reputation on ethics, and who values Twitter because it’s basically spam-proof (one unfollow click and the spammer doesn’t exist any more in your Twitter experience), all I could do was shake my head when I started seeing the TwitterGetter links in newsletters. I guess it’s a testament to the quality of my following list (or maybe that I’m only on Twitter 2-3x/day) that I havent actually seen any of the recruitment Tweets.
But it struck me as slimy and pointless the minute I saw it. I’ve grown organically to about 1000 followers, and as I slowly make my way to their profile pages to check them out (a bit faster since I discovered Tweepler), I follow those who interest me and offer quality.
If I want to follow a bunch of new people, I check in with Mr. Tweet, follow links on Follow Friday, etc.
Shel Horowitz, award-winning author of Principled Profit: Marketing That Puts People First and six other books
I acknowledge the fact that it is not such a good idea – to be “that guy.” For some reason some people got the wrong impression that I belong to this group of people – I have the feeling I got blocked. As I say: I am a curious person. That does not mean I always stick to what I ONCE PROPABLY SUPPORTED: But sometimes I think, for some people it is really important to “inform” when they go to the toilette or whatever. – There is nothing to say against it – by the way. Some people really use twitter to tell everybody everything. I feel it is not necessary to be a part of all dialogues of people I am following or follow me. An efficient help would be if we create ideas for the # more concentrated use. If somebody is interested – I linked the hashtag of the hash up there. You will wonder what some people feel important to hash. @bfraling Bernhard the “oyster guy.” See you soon in New Orleans…
I was following only 1 person that I personnally know when I received an e-amil about getting 19000 followers. Until I viewed the promotion video I was forgetting about twitter or wondering what it was for… Then I understand: “you need follower to gain exposure for your buisiness…”
Ok why not give a try…
a few days later:
- I have over 1000 followers and here’s the qualitive result:
> I unfollowed a lesbian and 2 satanic
> there is a certain amount of twitters that I follow back as a courtesy, not really expecting anything but that’s ok
now the good things:
>one of them sent me this link (interesting debate, THX Warren Whitlock)
> some have comon interest with me that have no relation with my buisiness(the law of attraction, reiki, soroptimist, vegetarian…)
> some are artist like me so they won’t “buy my products” but their tweets are valuable to me (anyway I don’t think anybody will “buy my products” right away from a tweet, that’s not how art sells)
>I got a follower from the town where my next exhibition will take place
> now I don’t know how many visited my website, appreciated, show to someonelse… maybe I’m loosing my time expecting EXPOSURE because I don’t have statsitic feedback althought it was the idea when I used a tweeter getter. )Doesn’t matter I already “met” nice people)
Well I’m definately not a webmarketer obssessed by pyramid schemes… but I needed to really play the game to have a valuable opinion, right?
maybe I still need more experience for the conclusion but it all depends on how it is used (I don’t let the bot run… I follow my followers!!!) and what one wants (I’m open to anything positive).
Does anybody know how to turn off Tweeter Getter? Changing passwords won’t do it.